Recently I was accused of two things by a pastor in a large church in our area:
1] That "I do not believe the Lord’s Supper is an ordinance or sacrament, but just anytime Christians eat together" and...
2] That "young men should not seek out the counsel and accountability of older men."
Unfortunately men sow discord in the Body when they speak things untrue but love covers a multitude of sin so I forgive the offenders.
I stated on my comments on June 24, 2009 4:10 PM
"I do believe the Lord's Supper is a sacrament of the church. I did not know I communicated otherwise."I also said in my comments on June 13, 2009 12:39 PM
"I also agree that simply eating with Christians is not communion."
The accusations are pretty ridiculous stuff, I know.
As for the next false accusation, on June 9, 2009 9:27 PM in my comments I said,
"I agree with Peter, "Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older."
But Paul's admonish to Titus is a different animal. There, the older are to "seek out," or let me use a different word for clarification "teach" and "train"...the younger, of course.
The young are not to "go out" teaching and training the older, but merely to place themselves under the authority of the older...the older are to seek out the younger to teach; the younger are to submit to the older."
I am a firm believer in seeking the counsel and accountability of those who are older and I example that life for all to see, especially those I disciple. In fact, this week I have been seeking the counsel of an older man quite a bit about some stuff and have plans on this upcoming week seeking the counsel of older men about some other issues.
Also, this past week at our gathering after our meal, we partook of the Lord's Supper very distinctly with bread and red wine.
Our Apostle Peter warns in the fourth chapter of his first epistle that Christians should not be meddlers. My brothers and sisters, let us not be meddlers. Let us not sow discord in the Body with false accusations.
Proverbs 19:5 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape.
Proverbs 25:18 A man who bears false witness against his neighbor is like a war club, or a sword, or a sharp arrow.
Proverbs 6:16, 19 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him...a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
3 comments:
Carl,
No ones like being accused of saying something that they aren't saying. I know firsthand. However, I urge you to be gracious to your accuser. I read the posts in question several times trying to understand you and found your words to be very unclear. Hence, this resulted in an abundance of commets seeking clarification from myself and others. I still find your responses to be at odds with you original post but isn't my point. My point is this: We often deserve to be misunderstood because of our sloppiness in how we speak and write. I say "we" because I've been just as guilty of this as well. I encourage you to extend the olive branch. He may be a well attentioned meddler who is seeking to sow unity in pure doctrine and not someone with an axe to grind! Blessings to you and yours.
Carl,
Maybe i'm the only one, but the more you try to bring clarity, the more confusing it gets. I had nothing to do with your second "accusation" so i'll leave that alone. In regards to the first however, let me say just tell you what this looks like from my perspective. You wrote a post on communion in your church. Several folks including myself disagreed with what we thought you were saying. You responded in a way that seemed to clearly defend your apparent position. You asked me if i had a particular form i prescribed to and i answered. Then, in your next comment you say...
"I also agree that simply eating with Christians is NOT communion. However, if one thanks God before a meal for his sacrifice [as Paul mentions in 1 Cor. 11] then it very well COULD be and actually is the Lord's supper." (emphasis added)
Very contradictory. After a brief interchange, you apologized for a lack of clarity and I forgave you.
Then, Mike inquired of you...
"If I read them right, I think they just wants clarification on whether the Lord’s Supper is a distinct event (i.e. certain elements with certain people) that happens inside the context of a communal meal/gathering or if the Lord’s Supper is just any (therefore removing a degree of distinction) communal meal where the sacrifice of Jesus is honored by a group of believers."
You responded with a story of how you guys had communion at your gathering rather than just saying straight up whether communion is distinct or not. To be fair i believe you were trying to illustrate your position and you said in your group it was intentional. After a few more comments back and forth you affirmed communion as a sacrament.
Now, do you really think it is fair after all of that to accuse men of discord and false accusations? Mocking comments like "The accusations are pretty ridiculous stuff, I know" If the accusations were so ridiculous why did you apologize for your lack of clarity? Are you saying now that you take that back? Does this pastor know you're accusing him of being a meddler and a false witness? Are you accusing him of accusing you? Please explain what your intentions are here as they seem clearly offensive to me.
Mike, thanks for your words.
Aaron, there is SOOOO much I cannot say on here because of public forum in order to protect certain people. If I reported half the situation you would be blown away at the injustice here.
If you want to call me, I would not mind discussing the situation in a LITTLE more detail with you, but will not do so on the NET. But I ASSURE you, the accusations are false and have negative ramifications as all false things do.
Fair? False witnesses are false witnesses. Enough said.
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